Manchester City vs. Spurs: Carling Cup 1/4 Final - A Tale of Two Cities
“I can see a lot of different areas on your CV but nothing to indicate you would want this job. So, why do you want to work in finance?”
It’s the fifth time I’ve been asked this question, each time in a more different and more probing guise. The answer is, “I don’t,” and part of me wants to say it as much as my interviewers want to hear it. The concept of finance is not something abhorrent to The Bagel but this position is. The minute I walked through the door of this City office, these two clean-cut, clean-shaven men spotted me for who I was - someone with no interest in finance. But I’ve been sitting in this glass fronted board room for the last 45 minutes trying to convince them otherwise and I’ve been doing a good job. They know I’m not the man they want to hire.
“We’re looking for someone who’ll use this job,” the more senior of the two had said, his unwavering, stern expression matching his unwavering, regulation length, black hair, “someone who’ll wake up on a cold, Wednesday morning in February and want to come in early.” I thought he was going to stop at “in”.
I look through the glass behind them and out for an answer into the office where I’d work. My eyes fall on a clock. 12.32pm and 23 seconds. 24. 25. This is the last thing I’ve got to do before rushing to meet Oog at Euston; freedom to Manchester, my self I want to get back to. I yearn give in, to tell these men what they want to hear but I’m not going out like that, not after I’ve done so well, not after Guy in his light grey suit took a disliking to me. Guy wants to cut me down. I realise I must have upset him. He’d been sitting there scratching a pen against his pad, taking notes a second into my every answer like a human polygraph machine. He nearly went through the page when his boss asked me what I thought of their website. I hadn’t considered this question and I certainly didn’t stop to think that it’d been Guy who had designed it. It was nothing special when I looked at it a few hours earlier and I wasn’t going to lie and kiss someone’s arse for the sake of it. But then the admiration for someone’s honesty probably doesn’t extend to good feeling after you’ve had your hard work slagged off by an interviewee.
Guy promptly started to ask me some questions of his own, trying to catch me out, to get me to contradict myself, to tie myself in knots and cut me down to size. Each attack from this shark of a man with gnashing milk-stained teeth and razor sharp fin of spiked up hair is followed by a sneer as he fails with his bite. My flesh is mine and I will be stripped. But these two fiercely intelligent and frighteningly direct men are nobodies fools, least of all mine, and their bullshit detectors have practically melted under the strain, the better parts of them just knowing that I’m not telling the truth.
My eyes return to the room and I fix them squarely on the more senior man, stiff as a board save an excellent knitted tie and the underlying sense of a very dry, very sharp sense of humour. I thread an answer to his question with the perfect weave of my previously spoken words, a new analogy, an ounce or two or truth and an unbending mask of sincerity. He nods and satisfied breaks our stare.
“So, how do you think Spurs’ll do?” he asks on a lighter note as we stand to end the meeting.
“Tonight?” I check.
“Is there a game tonight?”
“Away at City in the Carling Cup,” I announce with pride as I swing my tattered grey ruck sack over my suit jacket shoulders. “Who do you support?” I ask fearing the worst.
“QPR, it’s er…”
“…a proper football club?” I interject.
“Well, yes but we don’t see much proper football.” Good answer.
The two take me to the door, the final custom and Guy shakes my hand all too firmly with a sincerely practiced look in his eye.
“I was going to ask you who your favourite Spurs player was,” says Nice Tie to the back of my head, “but I can see by the beard it’s Steve Archibald.”
I turn slowly on my heels for the final goodbye unsure whether this is a dig at my appearance or trying to impress me with his knowledge. I pause to reply and close the door behind me.
“Ricky Villa, actually.”
Flying down the steps a shrink and shake like Steve Martin and John Candy in Planes, Trains and Automobiles when they wake up in bed together. The cold, fresh City street air sloughs the putrid disguise from my body with transformation complete back at the Bakery as I throw down my suit and pull on jeans. Bag packed I’m out the door feeling oh so human again as I head for Euston Station with time off and football in mind. Is there any better combination? I see my friend on the concourse before he sees me and greet him with an away day smile and my version of a song that’s been stuck in my head all money. “All I want for Christmas is Oog.”
With high spirits and that holiday feeling, we splurge our cash on the finest M&S has to offer: baklava, a sausage and scotch egg party selection box and the St.Michael version of Stella - Etoille D’Or, wife-beater for the middle class man. The journey up north passes with beer-fueled excitement as we slowly turn the quiet coach of this Virgin Express into football chat for all to hear. Will Defoe be starting up front? Will O’Hara play a part? What chance do we stand against an Elano boosted City with their unbeaten home record?
It’s bitterly cold as we step off the train and onto the streets outside Manchester Piccadilly. An unchosen university option and a broken heart from over four years ago are my only experiences of this town and neither any longer have any bearing on my life. A part of me would want to get some back for the hurt that it caused but there’s no reason to dislike it any more. No vengeance is needed. I’m here on a jolly and that’s exactly how I feel. Christmas trees light up this harmless, city square and there’s no resemlbance of the town in my head that could have been better more appealing than The Bagel. The time for closure has long since passed but it’s good to meet my enemy all the same.
With an hour or two to kill Oog and I head for a bar and stop for a few in the appropriately named establishment, The Northern, and I give my A to Z advisor a call. My sister, the Croissant, does as best she can as she relay’s the directions to Eastlands from the City website. There’s very little help apart from the fact that you can walk it from the city centre but fortunately Oog has the presence of mind to grab hold of the first man he sees wrapped up nice and warm in the comfort of a white and sky blue scarf.
Fortunately, Danny our new friend and City fan is neither insane nor a knife wielder - well, so far as we know - and he fills us in on what it’s been like to follow this rejuvenated, re-housed, unbeaten football team. It’s a pleasure to be guided by this typically good humoured and stoical Mancunian, living in Old Trafford, as we climb out of the city bowl, passed an abandoned mill resurrected into housing and into Sports City, home of the City of Manchester Stadium and what remains of the site of the Commonwealth Games.
There’s incredible about seeing a stadium for the first time - Fratton Park aside. Each one an awe-inspiring monument, a church to the god of football. As we walk beyond the mill, where, I’m pleased to say, there was no trouble whatsoever, the land empties out into a more clear horizon of low rise suburbs than the sprawl of a city. I look up from conversation with Danny to see Eastlands itself rising above the gentle rolls of the hills lit up on this crisp night, with sky blue beads at the top of it’s pylons like the UFO settled on land at the end of Close Encounters. Ahead, the traffic of cars and people, jam packed, snake their way up to the same destination like the world united in a pilmgrimage to see extra-terrestrial life for the very first time.
We say goodbye to Danny as we enter the grounds and wish him luck before Oog and I attempt to hide a four pack of Etoille D’Or in a lap-top bag behind a dirt burger van before making for the turnstyles. Stripped of our beer we make it inside in time for the whistle. The pitch opens up before us as we go out to the stands. My view of the ground opens up through a three foot wide doorway at the very centre of one end of the stadium. The bright lit green of the pitch grows wider and wider with the depth of the sound from inside.
We have an excellent view directly behind Robbo’s goal and twenty rows up but right on the cusp of the hardcore home fans. The game kicks off in this well-crafted ground; a fitting venue for tonight’s clash of such similar attack minded sides. The single bowl of seats is brimming with fans at the shorter, two-tiered, ends of the pitch but there are all too many empty seats where the roof curves up on the long sides in a partial third tier, just as Danny had warned their would be - the penalty of 50,000 capacity ground.
Bunches of balloons like sky blue grapes float about the low gradient of the crowd in this slightly too spacious venue with the pitch just a little too far from the front rows of fans; a hangover from its athletic track days. Still though Blue Moon soars about the ground with the pride of the fans clear as the Pompey chimes when they hit those high notes. “Blue Moon!” they call but just as I’m thinking how much I hate that song, their chorus comes to an abrupt halt. I’ve barely had time to take in the action, to look at the team from this unfamiliar vantage in the unfamiliar bright yellow when our first real attack reaps dividends. Ahead in the distance, the unmistakable mini legs of Little Aaron Lennon motor his body up the wing in a cartoon whirl and without a second’s hesitation he bangs in the cross. There’s a flash of yellow, a keeper dive and nobodies quite sure if we’ve scored. The City fans at the other end are quiet and unmoving but then they would be and it’s only as the Spurs mass at the far corner flag in a formation definitely not ever seen in open play that we’re sure there’s been a goal and we know it’s time to erupt. Just five minutes, we know there’s still plenty to do and it’s no surprise as the home fans call eventually drowns us out.
“Come on Citeh, come on Citeh, come on Citeh,” they implore their unbeaten team. As the game kicks off though, this doesn’t look like an early fluke. Games are always hard to judge from a foreign angle but we’re passing it about with assurance. We look as much at home as those in sky blue. City are in possession as much as we are but their moves are cut out. We are solid. We are composed and we are reading the game. Kaboul and Zokora are keeping cool at the back and no matter what tricks and through balls are threaded by Elano and Co, the are anticipated, dealt with and every decision is supported by every one of our line. The full backs know exactly when and how to aid the centres. We play as a unit, but unfortunately not for long.
As we move the ball out, possession is lost in the back of midfield, ahead and to the left of exactly where I stand. Didier Zee’s instincts are quick as he decides to commit and nip the danger firmly in the bud. He slides in on Elano cleanly but with both feet up by the end of the tackle and referee, Steve Bennett, goes straight for his whistle and then for his pocket. There’s cries for injustice amongst the Spurs with myself the only one who probably thinks it’s right when the red card is shown. It did look two-footed for me.
The traveling Spurs barrack Bennett with, “Can we have a referee” and “Bennett, you’re a cunt” but it makes little difference along with Zokora’s complaints and he leaves the field. Jermain Defoe is even less impressed when he is subbed a minute later for Teemu Taino to deputise at right back, while Chimbonda moves into the middle. We take a deep breath in and gird our loins for the onslaught we know is to come. There’s only two ways this can go: a total collapse or spirited defensive performance - a cup classic.
I’m standing on the very edge of our fans with only a ten foot gap and a steward between myself and the hardcore home crowd.
“Citeh, Citeh, Citeh, Citeh,” they sing loud into my left ear while I try to concentrate on the voices to the right.
“There’s only one Ricky Villa, one Ricky Viiiiiiilllllla, there’s only one Ricky Villa,” we chant in praise of our cup hero to the tune of guantanamera.
“One Ricky Hatton,” they reply for the second time in two weeks for their fallen champion and instead the Spurs faithful and The Bagel chose to focus on another of Manchester’s local heroes.
“Harold Shipman, Harold Shipman, Harold Shipman killed your nan, Harold Shipman killed your nan” (to the tune of Guide Me Oh Thou Great Redeemer), and then it starts and so does Oog.
To begin with it means nothing to me. I’m unaware of what’s going on, despite being the closest Spur to the sound. Part of my mind thinks of the pantomime of football and it’s only as Oog turns around shouting, “You can’t fucking do that,” in a Glaswegian accent far sharper than his normal softened tones that I reailse what’s going on. Part of the City crowd is hissing at us and not because we’re villains.
“You can’t let them do that,” says Oog as he grabs hold of the black steward to my left.
“Just ignore them,” the steward replies.
“I shouldn’t have to. You should stop them. It’s illegal and you shouldn’t be smiling at me. How would you feel if they were shouting anti-black chants. Would you ignore it then? Are you just going to stand here or are you going to do something?” he says as he turns to a different steward behind.
“I don’t know what it means,” replies the smug attendant.
“They’re making the sounds of the gas chamber at us. It’s racist abuse. So, now that you know, what are you going to do?” Very little, appeared to be the answer.
Oohs and aaahs from the home fans roll on in the background as the match develops. Manchester City try to press their advantage and come close three times over before the half is done. Bianchi so nearly makes contact at the far post as a cross is nipped in and the ball is turned just wide right in front of our eyes, but all I can think of is the atmosphere, the hissing and exactly how this makes me feel.
“I expect this from the likes of West Ham but I always like City fans,” says Oog, shaking his head. I’m disappointed with them too but not hurt. I just think of them as idiots for doing it and besides, I was happy to sing about Harold Shipman (for the record, Oog didn’t). I’m sure I should be more offended. Isn’t my attitude the same as the Jews in Nazi Germany until they realised what some of these “idiots” were actually prepared to do? It bothers me that it didn’t bother me.
Both the sending off and the anti-Jewish behaviour have added a nasty edge to the game, not a genuine threat but it’s a little harder to enjoy an away day when it’s a clock watching exercise and when even the authorities seem partisan and happy to let a social and legal injustice go by.
Oog debates the matter with me when half time comes, which no doubt will continue at the bottom of this page. I detest the greyness of this subject. When is it ok to say what? What are the laws of racism really trying to protect? What do these people really believe? Oog goes up to a policeman at the back of the stands and explains what’s been happening, who is responsible and exactly what the stewards haven’t been doing.
“What’s the sign for film?” asks Oog returning to his seat. I show him the charades sign and, with a some inexplicable mental bloke, takes about five goes to get it as right as he can.
“Why do you want to know?”
“The policeman back there’s got a video camera. I don’t think they’ll do anything but if that City fan that’s been doing it to me does it again, I want to shit him up.”
We cheer the Spurs as the take the ground again and pray that we don’t concede quickly. There’s little doubt that we couldn’t survive extra time but less of us getting that far if we ship a goal now. City are straight in the Tottenham half and it’s clear very soon that we’ll see little of the game at this end of the field. It’s impossible to tell what’s going on from this angle. Our formation looks strong, the shape good and there’s something else: we just don’t look panic. You can tell as a fan when there’s trouble ahead. Players tense up when there’s imminent danger, their movement changes, bodies seem erratic. We see City in possession, we see them pass it about but all we see is togetherness and calm in the Tottenham ranks. There’s just no point worrying for 45 minutes when you can’t see a thing. So, I let go little and trust in what I sense.
The blue shirts seem to find no way in. Every tackle we attempt is completed, every leg out is a block and we’re getting far too much possession for a team under the cosh. It’s the best defensive display I’ve seen all season. The confidence, the fitness, the team ethic that Ramos instilled has come together at just the right hour.
The clock at the far end counts the minutes down and as our faith and resolve strengthen with the passing of time, our boldness as fans is expressed.
“Eastlands, Eastlands, Tottenham Hotspur are going to Eastlands,” we try in reference to our Uefa Cup run that may end at this very ground in May next year. That seemed to feel good. We go again with the riskier,
“Wem-ber-ley, Wem-ber-ley, we’re the famous Tottenham Hotspur and we’re going to Wem-ber-ley” until it’s time for the all too often silenced,
“Spurs are on their way to Wembley, Tottenham’s going to do it again. They can’t stop them, the boys from Tottenham, they boys from White Hart Lane!” and still no equaliser comes. What shots we do see just look desperate from City as their long range efforts fly to row Z and mot probably out the roof were it Maine Road. Three times Robbo flies through the air twisting like cat to reach for the ball in a display of that keeper we bought, that one Man of the Season in his first for the club, the unstoppable blocker, the hero of the team.
“England’s No.1, England’s, England’s No.1,” we cry about the crowd and for the first time in weeks, nobody disagrees.
The City hardcore have become as desperate as their team and some start with the hissing again but not for long. The police descend in numbers and it’s something like bingo as they make for the very man with whom Oog was having trouble. A steward in front turns to Oog and says they mentioned something at half time. I can feel the pride being from my friend, unless it was mine reflecting from him. Not a word did he say to that City fan as he was taken away from the stands, not so much as eye contact did Oog descend to take. I marvel that this game, this match can show how one man can and cannot make a difference.
On the field City push further and further on. We gain more confidence, more possession and we begin to raid their half. It begins with the odd ball out to Dimitar the Great who holds the ball up against three blue shirts for as long as his skills will allow. His languid legs confuse and fool the defenders until their combined weight can finally push him off, but not always in time. He starts to get passes away, playing well as the lone striker. JJ and Steed start to support and suddenly that clock at the end is running a lot faster.
Hero of Fratton, Jamie O’Hara enters the fray with 20 to play. His muscley frame and turn of pace is a shock for the weary City players, pushed hard and desperate for that goal. With their spirits dropping he bashes his way through on the break and picks out Steed popped up in the middle. A touch, a drag, he’s round the defenders. We look down straight gobb-smacked that he’s yards out and one-on-one with keeper Hart. I can barely believe my eyes from this dreamlike angle in this dreamlike moment; no time to even consider if he can slot it. By the time I register just what is going on, we’re all on our tip-toes and looking straight down. He flicks with the outside of his right in an image that is still burnt on my mind and we explode with a game’s worth of pent up joy as we know that we’ve just made it through. 10 men, 10 minutes to go, a bundle of yellow shirts at our feet and thousands of grown men leaping about teenagers.
“10 men, we’ve only got 10 men, we’ve only got 10 men, we’ve only got 10 men, 10 men!” we sing to their very own Blue Moon and memories of a cup game a few years back come alive again , only with the studded boot very firmly on a Tottenham foot.
Berbatov so nearly make it three a few minutes later, no less than he deserved but it’s all a bonus from now on. By the time the whistle blows, theirs barely a City fan left and with Christmas round the corner and the frosty air around there’s only one song to chant as we jump about in the stands,
“Jingle-bells, jingle-bells, jingle all the way. Oh how fun it is to see Tottenham win away, Hey!”
Back out on the streets Oog and I text those who know and care, keeping low until we’re safely on the train out to meet Oog’s friends who look after us for the night. Outside Piccadilly station a bulldog-faced City in a sky blue Santa hat, hisses at passers by through dirty cheap fag hoping for a reaction, looking for a fight. We meet another City fan on the train - a nice old chap and we talk football of all the league along with a Man U supporting white-collar lad with a three or four beer look in his eye, a friendly demeanor and some excellent Wayne Rooney stories. Such two different sides of the city and two different sides of the City.
Oog and I decompress and debrief in the comfort, warmth and superb hospitality of Catriona and Simon in their Wilmslow, Cheshire pad - an enormous thank you to them for rounding off a perfect away day. There was beer to welcome us, highlights to watch on TV, tea and toast in the morning and even a lift back to the station. “Always open to the away fan,” was Simon’s welcoming reply on receiving our gratitude. I hope he means it. There’s a lot of Premiership clubs in that neck of the woods. If you want the number of the best B&B in town, give us a call but a small warning,
“Three beds, they’ve only got three beds, they’ve only got three beds, they’ve only got three beds. Three beds!”
The Bagel.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
I’ve been waiting all day to read that, B.
Excellent, too. Like the result. What a performance! I had a whole bar-load of Benfica & Sporting fans in shocked, dumbstruck (scared?) silence at my spontaneous one-man show as Steeeeeeeeeeed stuck it in! I LOVE it!!
Outside, for the 150-metre walk home, I started the song. There is a Portuguese lyric to Jingle Bells, but no mention of Tottenham winning away. The appearance of dangerous lunacy (the English disease comes to Vila Franca?) didn’t stop a guy asking me where the nearest pharmacy was.
Was still singing when I got in. Mrs FC Porto & the cat were both delighted to join in. The cat’s still singing it, actually.
Now, is it too much to ask for an away hat-trick on Sat. lunchtime? At the New Library? No it isn’t. The boys looked totally together, calm, disciplined, solid, classy, brilliant. Compared to everything else I’ve seen them do this season, they actually looked better with 10 than 11. I fell asleep counting points. Lost points in injury time……zzzzzzzzzzzz
December 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
I cant beleive those city fans with the hissing,, as always i was dying to read this too, its like hand in hand now with motd for me….bagel and linekare great combo……
I feel so confident for the Arsenal game even the draw would contiunue the spanish revival, wonder if we get them in the draw, on sky in 50 mins….. I think ill take it easy at the work christmas party to arise fresh on saturday, to see the mighty spurs…..
One Question though, who is PLAYING IN DEFENCE Against ars*nal on saturday??
Stalteri,chim,kaboul,lee????
COYS
December 19th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Great story, thanks mate!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
On a slightly different note, anyone hear Campbells comments today on the radio?
Im very dissapointed and sorry he was upset by recent jovial chants arent you?
December 19th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Hi Yids,
We’re gonna do you on Sunday and then in the cup.
Questions?
Direct them to your own arseholes, as they do the thinking for you.
Spanish revolution?
How do you say mid table maybes in espanyol?
El Spuds.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
And your clock is wrong.
Can you do anything right?
I know, i know, ask a stupid question…
And a yid’ll answer it…WRONG!!!
December 19th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
New library?! HA HA HA HA HA
I suppose you have to have a sense of humour.
It’s either that or…well you know…most likely time of the year for…go on.
FOYS
December 20th, 2007 at 12:20 am
sickeh your a twat, sickeh sickeh your a twat!!
great win for the lads.
Coys!!
December 20th, 2007 at 5:58 am
Oi, sickeh, perhaps if you found a job you’d have something better to do.
Fantastic performance from the lads, and as usual Bagel you’ve rendered the atmosphere beautifully. Bennet had a terrible match, he just wanted to be involved on every play and at every opportunity–that kind of officiating is the worst. But a win is a win and now we have two chances to stomp the Scum.
I shall be up at 5:30am Saturday here in the States munching on bubble & squeak and drinking too much ale way too early–homesick as hell. But 3 points away at the New Scumberry will make it all better. That or being so pissed by 12 o’clock that I no not who I or the fellows on the tele are anymore…
December 20th, 2007 at 11:21 am
RA Puppy
Robbie Keane made some good comments on 5 live too about what Judas had to say. Basically, he is telling the cunt to Fuck Off and stop whinging.
I wonder howmany times the Judas has verbally abused the ref or a fellow player?
If he can’t take the banter then he should slope off at half time like he did a few seasons back. Then he can claim that he is leaving the country for a new challenge only to pop up again in the Prem on even more money.
Greedy Judas cunt! Let’s hope he get even more stick now.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:29 am
oh i love it when you do posts like that bagel - i reckon Ramos has got more to show us… bring on Arsenal!
December 20th, 2007 at 11:37 am
Great post Bagel - I was checking all day for it, like many others, chanting in my head ‘Bagel, give us a post, Bagel, Bagel give us a post’ - it was definitely worth the wait.
Excellent win I thought. The best thing about the win is the confidence it will give our boys for Saturday. And we’ll give those arsenal kids a spanking harder than they’ve ever got off Wenger come the semi.
As for Campbell’s comments - I’m with Hornchurch Yid - he can fuck right off. I can barely believe the cheek of the twat. So the fans are supposed to nod sagely and cry ‘Jolly good play old bean’ while the players are screaming blue murder at the opposition, officials and opposing fans? Kiss my arse campbell. Get the players’ act in order before you start mouthing off about the fans. I heard Terry Butcher on Five Live last night saying ‘Just cos they earn a load of money doesn’t mean they have to take that kind of abuse’. Well, I’m afraid that’s exactly what it means, particularly when the abuse is because they’ve moved clubs for even more obscene levels of cash.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Hi Guys,
It’s Danny here, the sane and non knife wielding City fan - we walked up to the CoM stadium together on Tuesday. It was good to have a chat with you guys, I enjoyed meeting you and I hope you enjoyed your visit to Manchester (I’m sure the result helped in that regard).
Good luck at the Emirates on Saturday.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
brilliant stuff bagel cheers
dissapointed to hear about city’s fans - i have a couple of good friends who are blues fans and have always shared an affinity with them as both sets have had to stomach the success of their bitterest rivals - still we do seem to have a bit of a sign over them at the moment
bring on the arse - things are definitely looking up
COYS
December 20th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
incidently i complete agree with the thoughts on campbell as soon as i saw the remarks on the bbc website my first thought was ‘what a twat!’
December 20th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Though I have already commented on the post, I have to register my disgust at the behavior of the Man Citeh fans. Unacceptable and crass to the highest degree. The club should be punished severely and along with all involved.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Hmmmmm…
First of all - every club has its nutters, and more than likely those nutters will be sitting right next to the away end, so to Alberto I would say that I wouldn’t be too disappointed with City fans in general.
To Beneven I’d make the same point but would also say that unlike when I have made similar complaints to stewards at Birmingham or Leeds, the stewards actually did something this time (they told me they’d talked to the police at half time). So I think the club should actually get some credit, to be fair.
And in general I’d point out that we met some really friendly City fans the other night and I’ve always had a soft spot for them (they are kind of the northern us in some ways) so I don’t think any blame should go on city fans en masse. Like I said earlier you always get some nutters and I don’t think its too controversial to suggest that that includes us!
Now for the really controversial thing - I don’t completely disagree with Sol Campbell.
There are things that are shouted at Campbell that I would never personally say. I’m not homophobic in my day to day life so I don’t sing about Barrymore. I don’t think its right to come up with songs that talk about him swinging from a tree which is clearly a reference to lynchings which is an inescapable offensive thing to sing to a black man. I don’t wish him the HIV virus either. Therefore I don’t sing those songs and I’m not massively comfortable about hearing them either. I’m not sure if he’s right that the FA should do anything about it - if its a criminal offence, its a criminal offence. its a police matter not a FA matter I think.
But basically I don’t think the fact that he earns shedloads of money and did the dirty on us means that we should sing songs that in my view cross “the line”.
On the other hand, calling him Judas is ok by me. And I think that calling him a “c**t” is fair comment. Because, in the modern vernacular, thats what I think he is.
By the way, of the songs that I don’t sing, I’m not saying that if you sing them you ARE homophobic or racist etc. so lets not go too far down that road again, I’m making no accusations etc.! But in my personal view, if I’m going to complain about people making gas chamber noises (and I am, because it pisses me off), then I don’t think I can rightly tell the delightful Mr Campbell that I hope he swings from a tree.
Just because I don’t necessarily actually mean it doesn’t mean its ok - any more than man city fans who aren’t fascists can justify the hissing.
Sorry for the reasonableness. He’s still a c**t.
Oh - and as for the football - it ROCKED!
December 20th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
oog you are spot on: campbell does deserves much of the abse levelled at him, but unfortunately, for some people, The Line seems to disappear when they enter the terraces - as proved by our friends at Eastlands and the Swinging From A Tree lot. Sometimes we should think about what we are saying and how it could be construed by those at the other side, and actually being on the other side of it is probably a good education, hence hissing.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
oog
first cheers to you for complaining and to be fair indeed something was done. I agree: there are songs that I won’t sing and have been known to call out other supporters for using racist or heterosexist language–which doesn’t make me many friends. But there are levels of banter, we as considerate and thoughtful human beings have generally agreed on certain standards but sometimes it does seem that thoughtful and considerate human beings occupy only certain sections of football stadiums–the Lane included. I only wish that other supporters would speak up more often, wouldn’t it be grand to hear chants of “No more racism” ringing around the pitch in response to the nutters?
December 20th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Another superb post for a superb result.
Just quietly, when are we going to learn not to appeal red cards?! Doesn’t matter what video evidence says, what players or referees say about it after, the FA still never reverse it. It really annoys me.
December 21st, 2007 at 11:21 am
Bagel & Oog
Didn’t realise you were both at the game, Mini Yid & I were there so we could’ve arranged to meet up. What a game though, Mini Yid & I had shouted ourselves hoarse, not least because of Bennet’s dodgy decisions & almost constant interruption of play
Great post, really enjoyed it & it completely captured the evening
COYS!
December 21st, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Message from the Bagel:
“I, the Bagel, will not be able to access the interntet until quite a bit later today, or possibly tomorrow”
Over and out.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Slavia Prague eh ?
That’s a real tough draw !!!!
December 21st, 2007 at 2:51 pm
AC Milan eh?
That’s a doddle !!!!
December 21st, 2007 at 4:46 pm
With their form - yep, I’d say it was a doddle !!!
December 21st, 2007 at 4:53 pm
My point exactly.
Your comprehension really is coming along a treat.
December 21st, 2007 at 5:24 pm
AC Milan doodle? piece of cake
December 21st, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I have a ‘really good’ feeling about tomorrow. Senor Ramos has quietly gone about the task of rebuilding the team despite the injury setbacks we’ve had - then again that’s what ‘management’ is about - effective use of resources at your disposal. I really hope we tonk them and Juande he’ll be a true legend
December 21st, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Great tale, mate, partly due to the climate and season, but also the location - the great city of Manchester. Shame you weren’t going to OT though. You might have had a proper tale to tell, then.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 am
interesting blog you’ve got here. i discovered it looking for examples of how footy fans are hypocritical in their chants and found good examples here - though i don’t necessarily mean you yourself. i’m a west ham fan. my best friend in the world is a spurs fan. we hate each others clubs. both of us are committed anti-racists and have actually fought back to back against nazis together. the difference between us is that he is often able to “justify” racist behaviour by spurs fans whereas i am sickened by the behaviour of a small but sadly vocal minority of subhuman scum amongst my fan’s supporters. the expression upton paki is simply no more acceptable than the vile hissing that some people make. likewise songs about arsene wenger fucking kids or about harold shipman murdering nans are offensive and unpleasant. the excuse that “we don’t mean it” is the same that i’ve heard from boneheaded shitwits down the boleyn when challenged over “i’d rather be a paki than a jew”. as long as people think that one sort of abuse is ok but others aren’t abuse will continue. the idea that accusations of peadophilia are ok but racist songs aren’t is pure hypocrisy. i’m not surprised that the steward in question ‘didn’t hear’ the hissing, he was probably shocked by the harold shipman crap. Of course, in an ideal world he should have taken action on both chants.
Regarding the Yid Army stuff, I support the right of Spuds fans to call themselves the Yid Army, but you have to remember that people are idiots. When reclaiming racist abuse you are also saying that it is sometimes acceptable. Some idiots misread this. They think that if you say it, then jews must not mind being called yid. The same argument also applies to the expression nigger, if you see what I mean. Gangster rap and the like has normalised it to the extent that lots of people think it’s acceptable to use the expression nigger. It really isn’t. Of course, self-censorship sucks, and you shouldn’t have to do so, but you also have to remember that words have power, and there are still people in the country who don’t know any jews, haven’t seen the anti-semitism that still exists in this country, and don’t have any real experience of how much it hurts to have expressions like Yid thrown at you.
I dare say I’ll get some flaming for this, but fuck it. Responsibility for fighting racism and bigotry lies with all of us. We have to challenge it, we have to refuse to justify it, we have to not make excuses or take sides over it. I want to go and watch West Ham beat Spurs at Upton Park OR White Hart Lane with my oldest mate and sit in either end knowing that neither of us will be abused or attacked. I want to sing anti-spurs songs without it being offensive and I want to hear anti-hammers songs that aren’t offensive. I hate Spurs out of local friendly rivalry, nothing more, and I want my friends to hate West Ham for the same reasons, not because people wearing my colours have hissed at them.
I’m not gonna wish you good luck, cos I’d love to see you go down. (But you won’t). However any anti-bigotry Spud is my brother compared to a racist Hammer.
December 23rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Londoninflames, you’ll get no grief from me. Definitely a hammers fan I could do business with. I can even tolerate your wanting us to go down (quite right we won’t!), ‘cos your head’s facing the right direction on all the sick stuff.
Shame it’s not an ideal world and never will be. But that doesn’t mean that anyone who can see it for what it is should just give up trying to change things.
And oog, well done mate, last Tuesday.
March 4th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
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