The Great Debate
I suppose we should be grateful for any news of our beloved club on international crunch day for England, but the two major stories in the papers today just leave me going, ‘And?’
First are the preliminary financial reports showing record pre-tax profits at Tottenham of £27.7m. Not a bad thing, I grant you but, and? We’ve never exactly been short of a bob and rarely have we been priced out of buying a player we wanted. Besides, money doesn’t seem to buy us happiness, particularly if we go and spend it on players we don’t really need. Ok, so we’re rich but I’ll bet you my season ticket price will still go up by more than any other club next year. I appreciate that we need this money for more than just personal. Daniel Levy has infrastructure on his mind. He said:
“Our priorities for the club are focused on continued development of the first team where we have built an exceptionally talented squad, progressing our state-of-the-art training centre and the development of an improved, larger stadium.”
Good to see we’re on course for these things but we always were, weren’t we? Perhaps I’m getting a little Veruca Salt about this, wanting my Oompa Loompa now, but these three things are not what has been holding us back this season and nor the next two or three and neither does this £27.7m help me get the Red Debt Collection Service off my back. Perhaps I’m just sick of money right now?
The other piece of news is that non-executive vice-chairman, Paul Kemsley, has resigned from Spurs to follow his business plans in the US. In the same statement this morning, Levy said:
“It is with great regret that I announce the resignation of Paul Kemsley.”
“Paul has worked with me for the past six years at the club and I thank him for his advice and counsel during this period.”
And? This was the guy who was in charge of the new stadium project, whatever form it may take, and the guy who famously got caught with his pants down propositioning Juande Ramos. Quite the nature of the proposition I’d rather not comment. So what does this mean? No bloody idea. One less cook. The question is whether the broth will stop being spoilt or cease to taste any good? We just don’t know.
So ignoring all that intangible malarkey, here’s something very much to do with the fans and something about which I feel very passionate. We’ve had the debate many times over about whether it’s ok to use the term ‘Yid’ on what remains of the terraces. Right or wrong, I love it and I don’t want to see us robbed of this identity. There’s going to be a debate on Tuesday evening at Conway Hall to try to de-thorn this spikiest of subjects and if you can I suggest you get down there. Not sure what time it starts just yet but I’ll be there to say my piece provided I can get out of work in time. E-mail organiser Leon Mann to get yourself on the list and at the risk of opening this giant seething can of worms, if you have a view on the subject or any exceedingly good points then let me know and I’ll do my best to represent.
Spurs fans debate the use of the term ‘Yid’ in football
Tottenham Hotspur fans use of the term ‘Yid’ will be debated next Tuesday at Conway Hall in London.
Football’s anti-racism and inclusion campaign, Kick It Out, Jewish sports organisation, Maccabi GB, and the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust will bring football fans together for a forum discussion examining the reasons why Spurs fans have adopted a term.
A panel including Spurs fans and members of the Jewish community will lead the discussion with other football fans and players from grassroots clubs also relaying their experiences and opinions from the floor.
The event is taking place as part of the ‘One Game, One Community’ week of action, where 1000 events are happening across the UK between the 18 – 30 October to celebrate the diversity of the game, whilst continuing the call for equality in football.
Those wishing to attend the forum discussion must register with Kick It Out by sending their names via email to leon@kickitout.org
For further information please contact Leon Mann at Kick It Out on 0207 684 4884
“Oh great. A Druish bagel.”
The Bagel.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:50 am
All that money, congrats.
Wonder what you could get with that ?
Perhaps Peter Crouch and Nicolas Anelka ?
Or maybe you should keep it, just in case you do get that relegation feeling !!!
October 17th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Bagel
I am working until 10 this evening so will not be able to attend the “YID” debate.
I’m sure the point will be made by you and others but it’s important that this is mentioned that we at Spurs use the term “Yid” as a form of identity, not of abuse. Whether use of the word by Spurs fans is in recognition of a ” Jewish heritage” it doesn’t really matter any more. It’s our “name” and nobody can stop us from using it.
And that is why when opposing fans use this term even in an abusive way against us Spurs fans it doesn’t bother me.
There was a time at Spurs when you would regularly see the Star of David flags but even that has diminished. The link between religion and the word “Yid” for Spurs fans is not a strong one. Obviously, for the some Jewish Spurs fans that link may be still strong and they might feel an extra connection to the word. I’m sure for most religion doesn’t even come into it.
I’m only a poor little Yiddo, I stand at the back of the shelf…………
October 17th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Hey Bagel,
I beg to differ. I think the departure of Kemsley is significant. I think it’s a nother sign of the fractured boardroom. The whole club it seems is in quite a state of flux.
On the other hand, I think this could buy Jol more time - and I for one am glad. He and the players should never have been put under this pressure form the second game of the season - However: I do think, with another nice set of profits announced, the club is ripe for the picking. \i wonder if it’s worth a punt on Spurs being taken over by the end of the season??
I’m really interested to know how the ‘Yid’ debate turns out… As a non Jew, I would be upset if Jewish supporters really were offended by the use of the word. Also, what would I call myself on here? Tobythe… second thoughts, don’t answer that!
October 17th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
that f*****G yid c***.robbo!!!
what a f*****G c***……..lets hang him up by his legs and torture the f*****g yid….
October 17th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
TobytheYid
There’s a few of us who would be lacking on the name front, Tobythe…, Hornchurch …, …of the Norf, the list goes on. I await the outcome of the forthcoming debate, I think it’s all gone far too pc, we’ve never used the term as an insult, more of a sense of unity surely, all the non-jewish yids are proud to be identified in this way
I think your right, a little flutter now may well provide a nice return!
October 17th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
thats it now>>>>this should be his last game for england, a chance two many, id rather have calamity james and thats saying something as i cant stand that c*** either.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
I see joe pesky has dispalyed exactly what is the problem we are facing with this debate
Never mind pesky, get it out of your system within the safety of a blog site as I’m sure you’d never have the nerve to spout these racist obsenities in public
October 17th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
joe pesky
Your last comment was better, though not very constructive
October 17th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
where is all the opptimism about the great robbo now…..even you yids…can i say that , no tottenham fans cant back that..robbo up now!!
October 17th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
erm.what racism?
October 17th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
joe pesky
Robbo again, yes here we are with another mistake. I must agree, Robbo’s had a plethera of chances, but lack of confidence & luck have been the hurdles. He’s not been anywhere near 100% since way back in the World Cup in Germany, that’s where his confidence left him, though I find it hard to swallow that he’s still not turned a corner
October 17th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
joe pesky
Your 7:49pm post sums it up for the remarks
October 17th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
hang on , am i racist for calling you yids……..yids?
this world has gone mad.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
No you’re not racist if you call us Yids, but “that f*****g yid c*** Robbo” & “let’s hang him up by his legs & torture the f*****g yid” is pretty unacceptable
October 17th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
oi …..come on im only f****n about…these remarks are purely said with a pinch of salt….come on ….were all pissed off about the result. i dont hate robbo im just exagerating the facts. were all english!!
October 17th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Ok Joe pesky!
We are all pissed off, maybe I’m pissed off about his debate coming up, I see no harm in the use of the term Yid as a Spurs fan, I’m sick of the pc brigade (as I’m sure most people are) It seems that the average Joe Soap cannot say, show, display anything they feel an affinity towards for fear of offending any person, animal, ameoba or whatever in some far flung corner (I’m probably in hot water already for generalising so much & thus have offended everyone!), but the average Joe must take anything thrown at him in return
October 17th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
My word, I was well & truly on my soap box then!
October 17th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
The term ‘Yid’, or any other term refering to race/religion, is not racist until used in a derogatory context.
Simple really.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
P.S. England are absolute rot.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Spot on Wilson
There’s never been any racist intent with us using the term Yid
End of discussion then!
Bagel, call the organisers of the debate please, inform them it’s all been sorted on you blog site
COYS!
October 17th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
okay……me calling you lot yids is like you calling me a goon…..who made up this debate, there is no debate , there is absolutly nothing racial in me calling you a yid,or a fukin yid c***( thats just more profanity) its me asssociating you with the…. ahem.. great club that is tottenham hotspur and thats it!!
October 17th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Semi-agreed Pesky you fucking gooner c*nt wank stain.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
nice one mr wilson
October 17th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
semi agreed…….what you dont agree with you being ahem.a great team?
October 17th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
No it’s that if I happened to be a genuine religious yid who happened to support Tottenham, and then you came along and called me a fucking yid or whatever, then surely I would take it as a racial insult, even if I knew that you didn’t mean it in that way. But I would still see nothing wrong with Spurs fans calling themselves yids because there’s no negative feeling accociated with it.
Hmm, there’s a lot more I could say about this and it’s a shame I can’t make the debate to discuss further (let alone to see the Bagel in real life!)
October 17th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Hmmm, to see the Bagel in real life… That woul;d be good!
Bagel, I seem to remember you agreeing to you & I meeting up at an amenable away game, perhaps villa on New Years Day? I can then introduce you to Mini Yid & he can then thank you for signing the flag he’s getting from oog. Come to think of it, has oog posted it off yet? I’ll try to make plans with oog to thank him for donating the said flag to the yiddo through & through that, I am proud to say, is my son Mini Yid… I’m going on a bit again, aren’t I
October 18th, 2007 at 9:42 am
I think its important to find out what the Jewish community feel about it. Perhaps they should have the final say?
Though I agree that the term yid is used in a positive way by spurs fans.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:45 am
ps Wilson deserves a pack of bagels for his
“Semi-agreed Pesky you fucking gooner c*nt wank stain”
post.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Bagel needs to sign the flag, then I will post it off. Which means I need to meet up with Bagel…! Bagel - fancy heading to chez oog for the newcastle game? A small child in Lancashire depends upon you…
I’d be up for Villa away. I’m definitely going to brum away.
As for “yid”, my dad’s jewish, and doesn’t like it. But then again… if its not meant in a derogatory way, where’s the harm? I think people get too hung up about this kind of thing.
Quite often in response to that kind of point, you get the point that “if it was the N word instead, people wouldn’t think it was acceptable”.
To which I guess my response is that we live in a world where using the N word at a British football game would be a highly charged, clearly racially motivated thing. The fact that shouting “yid” promotes only a polite debate at what I randomly happen to know is the headquarters of the society of socialist lawyers (there are so many of those…) suggests that it is acceptable because it is largely accepted, and that most people realise it isn’t motivated by prejudice or hate…
Therefore…
YID ARMY!! sorry dad.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
I notice that the Spurs announcement on Kemsley says that he is leaving to persue his business interests in the U.S. Does this mean he is off to tap up Klinsmann in California? And if he gets caught, well, not being at Spurs anymore Levy can say it was nothing to do with me guv.
Bagel, how did the meeting go?
Oog, when my dad first started taking me and my brothers (we were all under 10) he tried to explain that the Spurs fans were shouting “You lost, You lost” when really it was Yiddos Yiddos. I can’t blame him for avoiding the real answer.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
If he’s gone to tap up Klinsmann, then he’ll have to explain away the rumours of the “far east business interests” that Joe Lewis is said to have agreed to sell out to at the end of the season.
Although all the reports I have seen say this is “reported in the Daily Express”. From their website all I can see is that it cites the same rumour which it puts down to “rumours on Thursday morning” or something. Sounds like a rumour to me…
Found anything more substantial, Bagel?
October 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
oog
I look forward to hopefully meeting you & Bagel at the villa game
My Dad, God rest him (long since departed us, but a Yiddo through & through, that make Mini Yid a third generation Yiddo) was half Jewish, unlike your Patre he wasn’t bothered about the term yid, it does not bother me & I’m proud to my jewish link
The N word is used by some black people to other black people, perhaps used in a similar way to us using yid, however I’ve never used the N word towards the black mates & work colleagues I have, as it would purely sound offensive
This debate has certainly sparked a lot of interest just on this blog! The Jewish community should have the last say, rather than the pc brigade of the nany state telling everyone what’s good for them. I hope the Jewish community see that our use of the term yid is never intended as derogatory, but as a sense of unity
L
October 18th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Bloody laptop! I hadn’t quite finished!
oog, looking forward to seeing Mini Yid’s face when he gets the flag! ?Thanks again, let me know what I owe you mate
October 22nd, 2007 at 12:09 am
Apologies for my absence.
As far as the deabte is concerned, I agree that it’s all contextual. If someone calls me a yid and is pertaining to my Jewishness then I take offence. If they mean it in reference to Spurs, I’m all smiles. As far as I know all the other fans at the Lane aren’t aware of my cultural heritage, so as yet I haven’t tried to punch my way around the stadium.
Secondly, and unfortunately, I can’t make the meeting on Tuesday night but I will be sending our thoughts to Leon Mann over at Kick It Out and get our views across.
Thirdly, I certianly hadn’t forgotten about meeting up with you YotN. I was thinking of Man City away but what the hell, let’s make it Villa.
The Bagel.
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:16 am
Bagel
We’ll have to wait for Man City away, the Villa kick off time change to 5:30pm has ballsed things up for me, so Mini Yid & I won’t be there in person but in spirit & down the pub watching it with Yid Next Door
Mini Yid is on to me, now that he’s seen an entry from oog about the flag! He’s not sussed it yet, but he’s asking a lot of questions!
October 22nd, 2007 at 11:18 am
Work’s got me until 8.30 tonight but I reckon I can make it over to Oog’s for the second half. We’ll get it sorted then.
The Bagel.
October 22nd, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Cheers Bagel & oog
I’ll keep the smoke screen up in front of Mini Yid & remain on covert operations until the switch is made
COYS!
December 18th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
helo, i moved too england a few weeks back from spain sevilla!!
ramos is a gret man and i wish him luk at tottenham
what does yid actualy mean and y do u call tottenham yids?
many thank yous x